Does Being Positive Make A Difference?

[Baby Dreamtime]

Hi lovely ladies,
Firstly congratulations to you all for making it here, I wish you all a H&H pregnancy and a beautiful baby/s at the end.

As a LTTer who has had a few unsuccessful IVF attempts, I am at my wits end. I saw a clairvoyant recently, she told me that I wouldn't conceive through IVF and I would only ever concieve naturally if I stopped thinking about it and obessing about. That I had essentially brought this on myself with my stressing. (She was pretty brutal). I don't know where to go from here and I know it sounds crazy that I am taking the word of a clairvoyant about what to do next. I think I need some time off anyway to get my head in the right frame of mind, but I don't have much hope for being able to concieve naturally.

So my question is, does thinking positive really make a difference? Did you go into your successful cycle knowing it was going to work? Did you have doubts and negativity? How did you stay positive?

I am really struggling with this, and I know that time will pass and I will be in a better frame of mind, but I am so concerned that my beating myself up is preventing conception. Am I really doing this to myself.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Hugs xx

[briggsy's girl]

firstly - your clairvoyant sounds like a grade A biatch!! who says that to someone???

as to positivity - i don't know that it changes the outcome, but it makes it easier to deal with. not sure how to explain it, but i've been through a number of IUI and IVF cycles - have had five m/c's, so a pretty rough journey. this last cycle, i went into with a different mindset - i started accupuncture which made me a calmer person than i'd been in the last two years. i just went with the flow - turn up when the clinic tell me to, jab when they tell me to - but don't fret on it. i guess it wasn't positivity - it was more denial that i was doing anything!

but it has worked - we're now somewhere around 8 weeks pregnant...

i would honestly suggest accupuncture for your state of mind if not for your actual cycle - it makes a huge difference - and in all honestly, it's the ONLY thing we really changed this cycle from the last one, so i believe it's made a difference - whether it was the AP itself, or the change in my own attitude i don't know...

HTH

BG

[Possums]

babydreamtime, speaking as someone who is also in a pretty bad head space right now, all I can say is, that I am sure, if you can dig deep (as I will have to do) and find a way to be positive and hopeful, but also a bit more relaxed about it (like BG said) it does help...I have also found acupuncture helpful. After both my transfers I felt hopeful..with the FET I felt it would work...I also thought the baby would stay with us for the long haul, and sadly it left us last week....I think positive thinking helps and I am a spiritual person and believe in putting positive energy out there...and even calling on the Universe and higher powers to help... but it doesnt guarantee results.
Just like I think being negative or putting negative vibes out there, can tend to breed negativitiy and I am sure it doesnt help a little life take hold, nor your head space and emotional balance... I don't think stress alone stops people falling pregnant...lots of women on here have stressed and fretted through their cycles and their TWW and then their pregnancy only to end up with a BFP and a then baby to hold. So don't beat yourself up about that...you are only human! as are we all.
I've been to clairvoyants too... I guess we turn to all sorts of areas of advice...I've also been to a naturopath, acupuncturist, reiki healer, GP, OB, IVF people etc....all of which is OK.
I think also, focussing on having a baby is normal and natural when in this process, but also trying to maintain a bit of balance by having some focus on other areas of your life can help keep things a bit calmer.... I havent been lately, and this miscarriage has thrown me into a spin...but I need to reconnect with other parts of my life for a while now.
I know I am rambling...just my thoughts. Sending you hugs. xx
Emma

[satya]

When I conceived my son I had completely given up all hope of ever being a mum. I thought I was too old (was 41 at the time) therefore I'd been really lucky to have the pregnancies I'd had (although all were short lived).

Then suddenly I was pregnant again. I used to swing between feeling like this was the sticky bub I'd hoped for or thinking that there was no way things were going to work out well. If you can manage to keep positive when LTTTCing then I'm all for it, but if you can't (like I couldn't) then I really don't think it matters.

When I gave birth I was 42 - 14 years after I first TTC'd but 9 months after I'd given up all hope. It was a natural conception even though I'd been told IVF was my only chance of a successful pregnancy.

You just never know what's ahead of you in this life.

Almost forgot. Re the psychic. My aunt who could "see" things only ever saw me with a girl child. I used to think this meant that I wouldn't have my own child as I had a step daughter. My aunt passed about a month before I became pregnant with Brock - I guess she could only see what happened in her lifetime. Maybe it's the same with the psychic you saw.

[~StarBright~]

Hi Baby Dreamtime

For me i needed postitve thoughts when i did get pregnant- i have lost two babies in late pregnancy, and they each have their own stories but thats a whole other thread...

With my first pregnancy i was i guess naive and just never imagined anything could go wrong- so i guess iw asnt exaclty positive or negative- but if anything more positive coz i just never imagined anything different.

with my second pregnancy i was PETRIFIED and sooo sure that i wasnt bringing my baby home- i was adament not to buy anything, i didnt get excited i was completely negative- and i lost her at 35 weeks...

Now part if me is always unsure whether my NEGATIVITY caused my loss in a sense- or if i just somehow deep down knew it wasnt going to happen and so was preparing myself.. not really sure. I told myself i had been positive once beofre and i ended up coming crashing down when something went wrong- so this time preparing myself would make it easier some how- well it didnt really- i was still devastated only this time i had the guilt of my nagative thoughts to add to the mix...

With DS pregnancy- i decided i was going to be POSITIVE.. mind you i had ALOT of support from many people on this site, but my mind frame was SOOOOOO much different to my previous pregancy-i bought things, i prepared and i NEVER let the thought enter my mind that he wasnt coming home and well... I now have an adorable baby boy who amazes me every day!!!

So I say- yes, like possums said, i feel i put neg feelings out there with Zahra, and got a very sad result, and with Shane i put out all the positive vibes i could muster- and i got a very positive outcome, but thats not to say it will always happen- coz like i said- my first pregnancy, i was positive and it still didnt work out.

I have also seen a tarot reader when i was TTC the first time- and he said i was stopping myslef from concieving- that i was my biggest hurdle, i saw another lady a few years later who said i would loose a few babies but that i would eventually have a boy and a girl quite close in age.

I think maybe the lady you saw was just trying to scare tactic you out of a negative outlook- but she was pretty harsh about it. I would def look into accupuncture- i had some when i was pregnant- whcih like BG said relaxed me to no end.. also i saw an energy facilitator who took me through meditation which was VERY helpful to my frame of mind...

Good luck and i hope your dream comes true soon
xoxox
SB

[Devon]

Hi BabyDreamtime

I think that clairvoyant was really irresponsible saying those things to you, how can it possibly help to tell you that it's your fault? I absolutely do not think that you are doing this to yourself! Have you been given any medical reasons for your trouble conceiving? If you've been told you need treatment I wouldn't stop that treatment because of what a clairvoyant said.

I don't know if a positive attitude helps or not, I guess if it does nothing else, it helps you survive the process.

The cycle that I conceived I don't think I felt any more positive than the ones that had failed (I was doing ov induction with IUI), but my DH says that HE knew that that one was going to work. He felt much more positive about it than I did. I think he's a bit more in tune with things than I am. I spent the TWW getting prices for IVF, which we were going to move on to next.

I did start acupuncture that cycle, and I really think it helped. I also spent a long time doing a creative visualisation of my embryo implanting and growing into a healthy baby on the day of my IUI, perhaps that helped too?

Ultimately though, I think you can get pregnant regardless of your level of positivity, I wouldn't think feeling positive is a precondition for conception. The hard thing about trying to feel positive is that if you don't feel positive, it just gives you another thing to beat yourself up over, so I wouldn't take what the clairvoyant said too much to heart.

If you feel that it would help you to take a bit of a break and work on some other things to make you feel happier in yourself, that's a great idea, but please don't give up hope that IVF will work for you.

I see that your BT is in a few days - wishing you all the best, and hoping that you get that BFP!!

Devon
xxxx

[teepee2]

Dreamtime it seems to me that your clairvoyant lacks the tact and compassion it takes to do what she does - maybe she should consider a career change!!!

It took us 2 years to conceive our daughter and I had a very difficult time coping with the fact that my body wasnt doing what it was designed to do. Throughout my treatment I tried to remain positive but the constant disappointment was making it very hard. My DH was a great support but all he kept saying to me was to stay positive, our baby would come to us when the time was right. I hated hearing this - how could I stay positive when I kept getting shot down time and time again by my own body. I felt like a failure! About 3 days before we were expecting our BT results, my SIL (who "claims" to be a clairvoyant!) had just been to an angel conference and she came back and told us that as much as we wanted a baby it wasnt going to happen for us! Even though I didnt want to believe what she was saying I was completely gutted and I cried for the next 3 days. The day of our blood test came and I was sure it would be a BFN. When we got the call that I was in fact pg we were both over the moon... that was until DH rang his sister an hour later to tell her that she was wrong. Her response.... "Dont get too excited yet, you need to make it to 13 weeks first!" Well that was the end of positivity for me, I spent the next 9 months waiting for something bad to happen to my baby. As hard as I tried I couldnt get her words out of my head. Thankfully our DD was born healthy and happy despite her aunt's predictions.

This time it took us 12 months and with this pregnancy my HCG levels started very low. I had to go back to the clinic every few days for BT's and although my levels were rising (slowly) I couldnt help but think the worst. I'm now 14.5 weeks and everything looks fine. But I dont think I'll every stop worrying - not until I have a healthy baby in my arms.

After my first pg I vowed never to see a clairvoyant while TTC or while pregnant. I worry enough myself as it is without having to hear negative feedback from others.

I dont know if I believe that positive thinking really affects your outcome but I do think that it helps you to cope with what you are being dealt in life. Unfortunately when its one blow after another, our coping mechanisms seem to go out the window and so does our ability to stay positive and look to the future.

I wish you all the best in your journey and I hope with all my heart that you have the joy and success of so many other LTTTCers here and you get your miracle baby very soon

[Mon]

Hi BabyDreamtime, I totally understand how you feel.
Firstly - agree that clairvoyant is a total biatch!!!!! F her she doesnt know what she is saying! I also saw a couple of clairvoyants the first one saying I had no probs and it would happen naturally and the second saying I would conceive in Feb this year (neither were right!)
Its so hard to stay positive when you have failure after failure. Its like you need to somehow protect yourself from the fall. This cycle I already had my plans if it didnt work and couldnt believe it when they told me I was PG. It doesnt mean that I am all of a sudden a happy positive PG person. I still have the same doubts and insecurities as I did TTC'ing.
However I think it helped that my DH and I went on a big holiday after our m/c earlier this year and it really helped to not think about TTC and rediscover the old me before TTC. I just resigned myself to the fact that it was going to happen and it would happen when the time would be right. Being in italy and being surrounded by so many religious icons and festivities really helped me reconnect with my faith. I think praying has helped my peace of mind. I have this wonderful prayer which am now reciting now that am PG - but am sure can work while TTC - which basically offers up to the Lord all my anxieties and fears etc. That really feels like a big load off my shoulders, cause I guess I was feeling really guilty for being negative. Especially during my 2WW were I had a negative meltdown.
Anyway I ramble. My best advice to you is to not take the clairvoyant comments to heart and push it aside. Do things that make you happy. AP works for some people (for me it didnt, but every1 is different), it could be a creative outlet, or regular massage (which I loved), praying. Just dont give up hope OK! It will happen.
Wishing you all the very best!
Regards,
Monia

[sushee]

I have to agree with everyone else - I suspect your clairvoyant has never been infertile/subfertile. No one who has experienced having to struggle to conceive would dream of making the woman involved feel even more pain, guilt or hurt than she's already going through. You'd think that being psychic, she'd have 'picked up' on that.

She needs a lesson in sensitivity. Or a change of job. She's obviously not terribly compassionate, and isn't suited to working with people.

Okay as for feeling 'positive' to make ensure that you conceive, I have to admit I think that's a crock. Speak to women who have had 5, 6 or even more cycles, enduring years of disappointment. If they can possibly summon up positivity at that point, they must have a personal fortitude that I obviously lack. Most women at that point are jaded and negative, yet they do fall pregnant. Yes, despite their lack of 'positivity'. :P

I know when I finally fell pregnant, I was probably the most negative I had been in my entire journey. But that didn't stop me from falling pregnant. And why should it? Why should obsessing and living and breathing TTC prevent you from falling pregnant? How would it prevent you from falling pregnant?

I honestly believe this whole 'you're preventing it from working by obsessing too much' is a sneaky way for people to make the failure to conceive the woman's fault yet again, as if she's not already doing enough to overcome her difficulties. How do you not obsess about something that colours your whole life? Are they insane? How do you NOT obsess about something this significant?

I personally think 'people who don't know what it feels like should keep their insensitive opnions to themselves' works far better for me!

[Baby Dreamtime]

Thank you Thank you Thank you everyone for sharing your stories, it has really help me to put things into perspective and I am trying to find a way how I can go on. As I expected, AF arrived with a vengence this afternoon, I am trying not to let this get me down, and am trying to look for the positives in this, I have a wonderful loving DH, we are financially secure to keep trying with IVF, work is endlessly supportive, I stimulate well and this cycle I managed to grow 3 beautful blasts (not getting to blast was one of my biggest fears).

So I will take some time out to work on myself and will be back in the New Year (hopefully feeling positive if just for my sanity sake). Thank you once again for your thoughts and kind words, I really appreciate it. Love and best wishes xxx

[poppihome]

I wish positive thinking is all it took, I have prayed, put in on paper for the universe and thanked God for all Ihave. But it makes no difference.
It is all about fate and the right embryo to implant at the right time.......nothing your head feels or doesn't feel can make any difference.
It will happen when it is meant to happen.............love Toni

[dusty]

I honestly believe this whole 'you're preventing it from working by obsessing too much' is a sneaky way for people to make the failure to conceive the woman's fault yet again, as if she's not already doing enough to overcome her difficulties. How do you not obsess about something that colours your whole life? Are they insane? How do you NOT obsess about something this significant?

I agree and it is also sometimes easier for people to not try to understand the issues of IF including the uncertainty of AC working so they try to find a simple an answer as it is our mental attitude that is stopping it happen.

Having a positive attitude as possible is beneficial in getting us through the ups and downs of IF and AC. But beating ourselves up if we aren't feeling as positive as we and others wish we were is so counter productive. It just makes us more unhappy.

I honestly believe we can only all do our best at any time, supported by understanding friends and family if possible. There will always be down times and hopefully up times. I agree with Mon, taking time out from the TTC rollercoaster can be beneficial, especially to discover that old you the carefree, happy one. AP also definitely helps me cope. I have no idea if it does anything beneficial medically but the improvement in my mental health and happiness is remarkable.

LTTTC is a painful journey. I think we need to accept that but live it the best we can with what tools we have. A big break through for me was to accept I was grieving and that I was grieving a loss that has no end (at the moment). When someone close to us dies we grieve. But there is an end or at least a moving on and acceptance. When we hold onto the hope of one day being parents our loss is for what may be. Society has a hard time understanding where we come from and we don't get the support we sometimes need.

[Possums]

baby dreamtime- I am glad you are doing your best to get to a place where you can move forward in the new year. I am doing the same thing right now to be honest, and have found the comments on this thread very helpful to me personally too.
I thought I needed to be positive...I thought I needed to be strong and move onwards...I realise now, I can be moving onwards, and also be sad, and angry and grieving...and that that's OK...that's something I hadn't really acknowledged before reading everyone's experiences. Of course, when we can be in a place feeling positive, that will help our own well being if nothing else.
I hope it helps you too...and that come the new year, we both get our BFP and our forever baby in our arms....

[Janie71]

Baby Dreamtime,

Firstly, I am so sorry that this cycle did not work out the way you wanted it to. I really hope and pray that the New Year will bring you your BFP.

In regards to feeling positive - I think this is really a personal choice and will depend on your circumstances. For me, the cycle that resulted in my BFP, I did make a concerted effort to be positive. I introduced acupuncture into my cycle which helped my stress levels immensely. I went into the cycle with the thought that I would do everything in my power to remain positive. I regularly imagined receiving the phone call from the clinic advising of my BFP and how that would make me feel. Every time I felt a negative thought entering my head I would focus on that phone call.

Now in saying all that - do I think that being positive made the difference? Well all I can say is that it did for me... but then my answer would be different if the result was different.

I am naturally a positive person and do not cope well with negativity so this is why I made this choice. I was lucky as it worked for me, but I am under no illusions that it is the only reason the cycle worked. We also happened upon the right embryo, my health was spot on... the stars really just aligned for us.

I wish you all the best in your future cycles.

Janie xxx

[Baby Dreamtime]

Hi everyone
Just thought I would post this re thinking positive. Here is the link: PM - Positive thinking does not help fight cancer: study

I guess we can lay off the self criticim if we have an unsuccessful cycle and we are worried we weren't thinking positively enough. Like some have suggested, the positive thinking is perhaps the only thing that keeps us going, but possibly does not effect the outcome. Love to you all.

Positive thinking does not help fight cancer: study
PM - Monday, 2 June , 2008 18:14:00
Reporter: Barbara Miller

MARK COLVIN: We journalists too often deploy the cliche about people "battling" cancer, but now Australian researchers have found that there's actually nothing much a patient's attitude can do to fight the disease.

Cancer specialists agree that it's a finding which is both reassuring and unsettling.

They've concluded that a breast cancer patient's attitude to the illness has no influence whatsoever on their chance of survival. The scientists say the work proves that patients should stop blaming themselves if their cancer returns.

But some patients aren't keen to let go of their belief in the power of positive thinking.

This report from Barbara Miller.

BARBARA MILLER: It's an idea which has been gaining ground for some time. Smaller studies have already suggested that positive thinking does not boost a cancer patient's chance of survival.

Those findings have now been confirmed with a large long-term study involving the assessment of more than 700 breast cancer patients over a period of eight years.

The study's lead author Associate Professor Kelly-Anne Phillips from the Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre in Melbourne has just presented the findings at a major cancer conference in Chicago. She says for some patients it's good news.

KELLY-ANNE PHILLIPS: I think it?s certainly good news for those women that I see whose cancer has unfortunately returned and who come to me and are really blaming themselves for not having thought positively enough or having been depressed or anxious after their cancer diagnosis.

And they come along thinking that is the main reason their cancer has recurred. And now I?m able to tell those women, look that?s just not true.

BARBARA MILLER: Kelly-Anne Philipps, who's also a Colebatch Clinical Research Fellow at the Cancer Council of Victoria, says the findings don't need to take away a patient's sense of having control over their illness.

KELLY-ANNE PHILLIPS: The things that are important are, you know, having the right treatment and taking the appropriate treatment and also there are other emerging factors that are important in survival after breast cancer, so things like regular exercise for example, is something that women do have control over and it seems to be emerging as an important prognostic factor, maintaining normal body weight for example, is clearly a very important prognostic factor after breast cancer.

So I think it means that women can focus on the things that we really do know make a difference.

BARBARA MILLER: Dr Jane Turner, a spokesperson for the Cancer Council, has welcomed the research.

JANE TURNER: I?m absolutely delighted because a number of people believe that stress causes cancer and women are commonly told to be positive. However, that denies them the chance to talk about the things that are really concerning them, it denies them the chance to necessarily seek the support they might need, and it also denies them a chance to seek treatment for anxiety and depression, which are very common.

Some people are naturally optimistic, some people are worriers. You can?t turn yourself into something you?re not, nor should you feel burdened that you have to.

BARBARA MILLER: Would you expect that these findings would also apply to other forms of cancer?

JANE TURNER: I would expect so. There has been some research done in Melbourne, at Peter MacCallum Hospital, looking at lung cancer and they?ve found similar results.

BARBARA MILLER: But some cancer patients are sceptical about the findings.

Lizzie Wheeler from New South Wales was diagnosed two years ago with ovarian cancer.

LIZZIE WHEELER: I don?t think I could have made it this far if I didn?t have a positive outlook and everybody around me was positive. I?ve had times where things have been really rough and I?ve been really ill, but I?ve managed to bounce back up again.

BARBARA MILLER: What do you make then of this study that finds that the attitude that people have, in this particular case, to do with breast cancer had no impact on their chance of survival?

LIZZIE WHEELER: I?m not sure where they?re coming from with that. I don?t know. I can?t believe that your attitude doesn?t have an outcome that helps with you to keep going.

BARBARA MILLER: John Stubbs is the executive officer with the advocacy group, Cancer Voices Australia. He says the research findings will help some patients.

JOHN STUBBS: Personally, I feel that my positive attitude was of great benefit to me, not only that, I had a great clinician and I had great family support. So, I think I got the whole package.

It?s probably fair to say that there would be a number ? or there would be many cancer patients who feel the same, or there may be an equal number of patients who don?t want to be trapped ? I think we call it, trapped in the prism of the positive, that they?ve been positive throughout their cancer and its returned and all of a sudden they?re made to feel guilty about that.

So, I think there will be some good things that?ll come out of this report.

BARBARA MILLER: That report prepared by Barbara Miller.

[Baby Dreamtime]

Just bumping this up

[sammiejam]

This thread is great. I recently recieved a long awaited BFP. After 3 ectopic pregs (2 ruptures) and 3 IVF cycles it does not seem real. I cannot find the strength to be positive. Every twinge, every pain convinces me I am about to have a miscarrage or that the wee bubba is somehow growing in a microscopic stub of my removed fillipean tubes.

I feel like I have everything pinned on this pregnancy. The changes to medicare in january mean that we will be able to afford maybe one full cycle and of course my bio-clock is ticking.

This morning I said to my DH "well if i am going to lose this baby then I want it to happen now so that I can have at least 2 more boost cycles before the end of this year. At least that way we would have be able to get some frosties before the changes hit."

DH was totally shocked. He is so happy and upbeat and I am sceptical and concerned.

I hope that once I am in the 2nd trimester I will feel better.

BD, thanks for posting that study and bumping. I feel ALOT better knowing I am not the only one who cant be Mary Bloody Sunshine all the time .

[onthefly]

Congrats Baby Dreamtime & sammiejam
I think being positive helps our own frame of mind and the way we percieve things in our life. I doubt it does much physiologically though.
Sammiejam, given your experiences it's no surprise you feel this way. I hope you are able to get past this and enjoy a happy & healthy pregnancy. I think for me once I felt movements I was able to relax a bit, but what really helped was realising that the worry would never really end unless I let it. We get past the first trimester, then we worry about the 20 week scan, and then the birth, and then those early days, and then....
But no, nobody can be mary sunshine all the time .