Does happy mum REALLY equal happy baby?

[Crystalwings]

In some ways I find this thread very judgemental even though it is a good topic. I just want to add that for some to hear HM=HB is there ticket out of something they didn't or did want to do. Say if they wanted to co-sleep but thought it was dangerous until someone they knew suggested it would make their baby happier HM=HB or vice versa and both got a great outcome. I also believe that in regards to BFing it is unfair to say that every woman who chooses to FF isn't truly happy. There are plenty of women out there perfectly happy with this and just because we all know that BFing is best doesn't mean they are any less of a mother because they believe they are creating a happier household. It is also about the other people in the family not just mother and baby. Also everyone has a different definition of happiness and what makes you happy and if a parent feels the need to use childcare or go out for a coffee for some sanity it is not our right to judge them and take anything away from their role as a mother. Who are we to say who should and shouldn't have children because none of us are perfect and most of us strive to be the best we can be even if that isn't good enough for some. Everyone is in different stages of their life when they become parents and it effects everyone differently. Also how much support, your personality lots of things come into how you parent but it doesn't mean one way is better then the other. IMO we are here to support one another and if that means some fuzzy words now and then then thats ok.
Someone mentioned earlier about being stimulated by adults and teachers mustn't be stimulated etc well thats not really a fair argument either because they talk to other teachers in the staff room and parents, even the lolly pop lady.
I also believe that while obviously your identity changes when you have a child it's ok to feel like you have left something behind and pine for that occasionally, it's healthy but at the end of the day you know if your children are or aren't happy and you do something to correct that. You can still be a dedicated parent if you feel this way and it is wrong to say just because you have dreams outside parenthood you aren't 100% dedicated. Your children will leave one day and IMO it is good to retain some independence so that when that time comes it isn't so traumatic for the mother.
It used to be that a village raised a child and it's still that way in lots of other cultures and animal kingdoms and children can be stimulated by people other then their parents and still be happy and so can the parents.
Hope my little rant makes sense. I'm sure there's more but that will do for now.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Who are we to say who should and shouldn't have children

Well, for the record, all of us still in the thread haven't said that.
As for fulfilment, I thought we'd got past that sticking point - which was brought up by a member who left, possibly due to confusion over what we were talking about.
The topic is not about mental stimulation and SAHM's in the least.
No-one here has at all said the FF mums are ALL unhappy with what led them there. That's just making stuff up about what's been said in this thread.
We've been saying what we're saying and no more. Any other conclusions, assumptions or parallels you want to draw are at your own peril! The thread could really degenerate if you're going to assume we're talking about ALL mothers again - we are not. We're talking about vulnerable mothers who want to hear this to justify decisions that may or may not, in reality, lead to that Happy Baby...as long as they hear the 'Happy Mummy' bit. At least, that's what I'm working on here.

[sunshine_sieben]

At least, that's what I'm working on here.

Oh, I just love this little snippet of your post, Mayaness. It just points out that our posts are all a work in progress. They never tell the whole story as we are in the process of mulling over the subject while we post, raising issues and discussing them. A thread like this is an evolution of thought processes. Somebody might raise a point that might make me change the way I view something (not likely, since I'm always right )

Saša

PS: the bit about me always being right is of course tongue in cheek. just thought I'd clarify!

[Smoke Jaguar]

Somebody might raise a point that might make me change the way I view something (not likely, since I'm always right )

Well, of course it's tongue in cheek, cos I'm right :P Work in progress; yep, that's my headspace!

[Trillian]

Olive's Mummy, of course we are not making a blanket reference of ALL Mums/parents. We are looking at the situations where it is used the most - and that's where often its just the wrong thing to say and isn't helpful to anyone. You're right, some mums who go to FF don't have any issues with it, but it's actually been said earlier in this thread (you might have missed it) that they are the Mum's who DON'T need to hear the statement. It's the ones who have the huge internal struggle with it who it gets said too and who really don't need to hear it, because then it's like they have to trick themselves into thinking it must be true, so I must be happy - all the while wearing their rose coloured glasses.

So maybe it is their ticket, or their validation of what they are doing is right, and often it might be right, but it's all a little fake, when you have someone telling herself that she *must* be happy because her baby is. We're all sort of saying that no, it's not alright and we're allowed to feel unhappy even if what we do makes our baby happy. The fulfilment bit came later as the thread evolved. I personally think fulfilment is a separate issue, but I'm happy to discuss it here too. I'm the sort of person who lets most of life roll off my back like the proverbial duck. I had a pretty ordinary childhood and I've grown up with very little expectations of life, so anything positive that happens is a bonus, so therefore I am a happy and fulfilled person because I take pleasure in the little things, I don't need to go searching for it because I already have it.

[Crystalwings]

Ok Trillian that makes a bit more sense in regards to the original thread, it just got a bit out of hand back there and I should have checked the updated posts before I posted. I think your right, there are lots of underlying separate issues here so sorry for going back to the negative bits I just wanted to say my bit about the nasty comments but realise the thread has gone beyond that now which is definatly a good thing.

[Liz]

I agree with the work in progress Most threads like this are people nutting out thoughts & ideas and discussing them. They don't have to turn into debates where you have to choose a side and stick to it. I've known a few threads where my initial reply is different to my thoughts later on in the thread. It's all about discussion and learning

[Oorki Galoorki]

girls this is a great thread and yes its a work in progress but that is why we have them so our ideas and thoughts can evolve..

i have agreed with alot of things that have been said but im not brilliant with words to make beautiful posts!