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Thread: VBAC / EBAC Discussion #3

  1. #1

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    Default VBAC / EBAC Discussion #3

    Are you looking to have a EBAC or Empowered Birth After Caesarean? Looking for some support or have a question? Post your thoughts here.

    According to the Birthrites website, the risk for uterine rupture in a VBAC is extremely low. They state, "The likelihood of uterine rupture with attempted VBAC is 0.5%. (0.2% uterine rupture, 1.1% asymptomatic dehiscence from case control studies). The risk of hysterectomy and perinatal death from uterine rupture are 0.05% and 0.07% respectively in hospitals equipped to provide rapid laparotomy. (Australian VBAC study)"

    VBAC RESOURCES

    Birthrites (Aus) Lots of info on caesareans and VBAC
    VBAC.com - Provides childbearing women and maternity care professionals access to research-based information, resources, continuing education and support for VBAC
    CARES-SA
    Birth After Caesarean, Unlimited Possibilities by Caroline Daniels
    Caesarean Birth...Making Informed Choices (Birthrites Booklet, AUS)
    The Thinking Woman’s Guide to A Better Birth by Henci Goer - good section on VBAC and other important birth topics
    The VBAC Companion by Diane Korte
    The Birth of Aasha (DVD) by Tara and Garfield Darlington - a VBAC birth
    Obstetric Myths versus Research Realities by Henci Goer

    Last edited by Shannon; January 16th, 2007 at 04:13 PM.

  2. #2

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    Catch up with your old thread HERE

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    Deb, you can ask for a copy of your records, but even records are not always accurate. Its like in the article on the main site about the pelvis being too small thing:

    Twenty years ago, physicians were known to tell women that the reason they had a cesarean was that the child’s head was just too big for the size of the pelvis. The trouble began when these same women would stay at home for their next child’s birth and give birth to a bigger baby through that same pelvis. This became very embarrassing, and it curtailed this reason being put forward for doing cesareans. What replaced this reason was the post-cesarean statement: “Well, it’s a good thing we did the cesarean because the cord was twice around the baby’s neck.” This is what I’ve heard a lot of in the past ten years. Doctors must come up with a very good reason for every operation because the family will have such a dreadful time with the new baby and mother when they get home that, without a convincing reason, the fathers would be on the warpath. Just imagine if the doctor said honestly, “Well, Joe, this was one of those times when we jumped the gun—there was actually not a thing wrong with either your baby or your wife. I’m sorry she’ll have a six week recovery to go through for nothing.” We do know that at least 15 percent of cesareans are unnecessary but the parents are never told. There is a conspiracy among hospital staff to keep this information from families for obvious reasons.
    Kelly xx

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  4. #4
    Debbie Lee Guest

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    Haven't we stopped doing people's info at the beginning of threads? Or is this one different?

    Kelly - yeah I guess I should try and get hold of my records. I'd actually like to see what is written down in regards to dilation etc. I was never told how far along I was and my Mum reckons I was further along than I thought...

  5. #5

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    They may have been right Deb, as sometimes when bub puts pressure on the cord it's heartrate can drop, which is another reason to leave the waters, but also notes aren't always correct. One midwife said to me that she saw one woman come in for a caesar which the Ob had written for CPD (cephalo-pelvic disproportion or pelvis too small) and she thought it was a bit suss... on talking to the woman she revealed she was actually over being pregnant and asked the Ob for a caeser. So it's unfair when the stats are skewed in this way, as we'll not know the real rates of their diagnosis.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
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    Deb that book is great, but it did take me ages to process the information in there. I even had a period of time when I had to "grieve" Matilda's birth all over again. Then I could read it in a better frame of mind.

    Kelly that is so bad, how could you possibly quote stats or even rely on them if they are so skewed!

  7. #7
    Debbie Lee Guest

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    OOo that makes me mad!
    I know the final weeks of pregnancy can be tough for some but to resort to a caesar because you're "over it"?? Hmmm
    Apart from that... it should have been up to that OB to inform his patient... not just go along with her wishes and LIE about it! OMG!

    Christy - yeah I can see that I'm gonna have to deal with a few things along the way. ATM I'm very angry at myself for not reading more when I was preggo with Gab. U live and learn, hey?

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    My SIL had a csec, coz she didnt want her very large ( greek) family outside waiting for her to deliver, she "snuck" in and had a csec on my twins b'day because she wasnt expected to have the baby for another few weeks, so the family were not harrassing her yet.........:eek: Howz that for a reason.

    It amazes me how many people say "oh I would have loved having my baby naturally but my Dr wouldnt let me try" AS IF ITS HIS RIGHT TO CHOOSE???????
    How many people would continue to go to a hairdresser who told you - nope you cant have a colour in your hair, but I will let you have a perm.........

  9. #9
    Debbie Lee Guest

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    Vanita - wow... that's kind of a selfish reason to have a caesar.... really! Surely she could have worded up the hospital staff to keep her family away? Vaginal birth can still be done in secret too! LOL

    I really think people have too much faith in the doctor. We kind of have it drummed into us from a very young age. They're the experts so they know best. Might be the case when you're ill but pregnancy is hardly an "illness".
    The more I am reading, the more I am seeing that doctors see pregancy as an "abnormality" that needs to be fixed even though it's a normal and natural state to be in. It's what we were designed to do. It's a real cultural problem, isn't it? I'm finding it hard to get my head around (uno... what if I ignore the doctor and he was right?) but I guess that's why I am reading and trying to inform myself.

    Actually... I was thinking about asking the midwives when I see them if there's even any point in me going to see the doctor so often. So far I am going to him once every 4 weeks. I don't recall seeing my GP that often when I was preggo with Gab. It's probably cos of my high BP. Hmm... I'm on meds for that now tho. I guess all I can do is ask.

    I'm also not wanting to go and see a gyno to see if my pelvis is the right size to birth a baby. I know it's bollocks to even suggest that.

    Do I really need to see someone to approve my caesar scar for trial labour??

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    Hi.. I have had 2 c/s. my 2nd was an elected c/s. We are ttc #4 I am 99% sure we will go for another c/s. I would like to have another vaginal birth but at the same time the risks are to high for me. I hope it is ok for me to read here as I still like to read other peoples stories and hear how they go..

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    Nic, have you read up on the risks? Rupture rates are very low, lower than the chance of miscarriage with an amnio and also you have a rupture risk having an induction (with no prior caesar) or you can even have one with a caesar. Your risk of hysterectomy and haemorrhage is also significantly higher the more caesars you have, it jumps quite significantly with each one, I have the article somewhere in here about that. Just some facts for you, not picking... if risk of harm is of worry to you I would get reading - 'Silent Knife' and 'The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth' would be the best.

    ETA: Here you go: http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/...ad.php?t=15229 - these rates are all higher than rupture rate.
    Last edited by BellyBelly; January 17th, 2007 at 11:20 AM.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
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  12. #12
    Debbie Lee Guest

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    Nic - I'm also being told about the risks of not having another c/s.... yet everything I'm reading tells me that there's more risks WITH having another c/s. I'm trying not to just listen to doctors but get a well-rounded perspective... iykwim?

  13. #13

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    Interesting thanks
    I read somewhere that the risk deoends on how your uterus ws cut. So the scar you see on the outside is not necessarilty what the cut on the inside was. I figured when the time came I would disucss with my Dr my choices and find out what cut my uterus has.

    Another thing I wondered as I have a history of Gd and big babies would they induce me at 38-39 weeks (when they would do a c/s) or would they let me go over. In my opinion the longer the pregnancy continues the bigger the baby therefore the less chance of a natural delivery. If I do have another c/s I will ask for the c/s to take place after week 39 as I think my dates were off with my last son. He was born at 38 weeks but he was smaller then my other children still big at 8lb 9oz but I feel he was maybe a week earlier. I ovulate late in my cycle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie Lee View Post
    Nic - I'm also being told about the risks of not having another c/s.... yet everything I'm reading tells me that there's more risks WITH having another c/s. I'm trying not to just listen to doctors but get a well-rounded perspective... iykwim?
    Thats what I am trying to do.. I would prefer a natural due to the recovery time and less time in hospital but I am also scared of another natural cus it hurts lol. I know I know c/s hurt too but I don't know which I would prefer kwim? I know it seems early to even discuss all this seeing as I am not even pg yet but I would like to be totally informed..

  15. #15

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    isnt it frustrating how Drs would just prefer to do a caesar because its easier and less time consuming for them grrrr... I was lucky as i had 2 obs in theatre with me, one wanted to a classical caesar, the other decided to do the "new" caesar, and it went fine. I was so greatful for that, as i never ever want to have another caesar... I truly did have no chioce for mine (Anneliese's heart rate dropped severely every time i contracted) and they just needed to get her out. Next time (if ever a next time) i want a vbac..

    Just curious, whats an ebac??

  16. #16

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    Empowered birth after caesarean

  17. #17

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    Whats a 'new' ceasear?? and whats the difference between the 2

  18. #18

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    classical caesar they cut both ways , with my caesar ("new" caesar is what the drs were calling it, as the classical was the first style of caesar done, more chance of rupture next time) i just had 2 horizontal incisions. mines about 15cms long, and was superglued back together afterwards.

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